Meet the Good Americans Who Made America Synonymous With Torture »
Posted By cosmogenium 2 months ago in NewsThis is the argument that some of the generals leading Vietnam made, that many will make about Iraq. "I knew it was wrong, a mistake, and immoral to boot. But if evil be done, better it be done by me that I might try and limit the damage, then that it be done by those foolish or fallen enough to believe it was actually the right thing to do." Perhaps they are right, perhaps damning themselves is what they had to do. But I do not think that they can be other than damned, that their sacrifice is anything but their honor. They have not just looked into the Abyss, they have walked into it. And the price is, can only be, a piece of their soul. For us to respect their decision, indeed, requires that we see the evil they have done.
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cosmogenium
Your typical liberal curmudgeon old fart blogger with thoughts on most everything trying to change the world and fight fascism one mind at a time.
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Comments So Far: 14
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cosmogenium2 months ago
That feeling of being dirty, of having "sinned," of being somehow stained by a guilt that could not be placed has been identified now. What was done in our name has come home to roost in our collective conscience. Where were the riots in the streets when the charlatan Bush was seated in the throne by the Supreme Court? Where was the press when the shoddy case for war in Iraq was being made on the public stage? Why weren't the protests against that war bigger and better covered in the media? And why are the people who condone and ordered torture, who lied from the very start to get their way in Iraq, still in power rather than in prison? We let our government be stolen by the aristocrats in their penthouses and foreign mansions. The only way to make things right again is to take it back and do the right and just things for the people of Iraq and America. This time, we must not forget what happened, why, and by whom these things were done.
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unome22 months ago
Thank you for this post. I truely believed we stood for something greater than the horror we have brought to the world over these last seven years. I am ashamed of my country , and for myself for continueing to pay taxes , and for all those Americans who will likely make excuses for these soul-less acts.
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jovial1 month, 4 weeks ago
Great article Cosmo. Long time no see. Great to see you back on the front page. Torture is condoned and even accepted by some citizens in this country, because they are afraid. Afraid of people that are different and they can't understand. As long as we can keep the "boogieman" image going on these people, it doesn't seem as bad and people can digest the horror of it all. The fear from the government is that the demographic of America is changing. The people that have enjoyed control for so long are trying to consolidate and tighten their grip on control. We are in for a turbulent time in politics and world affairs, both internally and externally
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miklkit1 month, 4 weeks ago
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil because I am the baddest Mofo in this valley.
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Have a nice life in your valley of darkness mofo. Most of us will be enjoying the light of enlightenment. -
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TheRealizer1 month, 4 weeks ago
Does it give you a warm fuzzy feeling Wolfie to know that torture is being done for you???????
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Tcaros1 month, 4 weeks ago
Wolfie's a tuff guy. He could withstand 2-3 days of sensory deprivation I'm sure.
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Why would they torture someone to help America?
It's not what we do, this is a cowardly excuse to have used torture to get information.
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Tcaros1 month, 4 weeks ago
Unfortunately we have an adminstration without courage or morals.
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It takes no morals and very little courage to torture another human being when you are in control.
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The authorization of torture has defamed the name of our troops and opened America up to debate among our allies. We should have put a stop to it immediately and dismissed the legal opinions of John Yoo and David Addington as treason. -
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Georgia501 month, 4 weeks ago
In WWII, spies were routinely tortured and shot, even if they had not brought direct harm to anyone. That is because spies, then and now, are deemed to operate outside the auspices of martial authority.
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The torture being duscussed here not only involves operatives who, like spies, operate without a tie to the military command of a sovereign nation, they do not even act indirectly on behalf of any sovereign nation as spies do. And in most cases, they were apprehended in proxity to low-level conflict where the lives of soldiers and civilians were at risk. Thus, one may argue they do not even merit whatever tribual would be offered to a spy before his torture and execution. They are free agents, society's malignant cancer cells, if you will. And like any malignant cancer, eradication of terrorists by any means is what will protect society's innocents in the long run.
Those who cannot bring themselves to understand the facts and case history surrounding our treatment of terrorists ought to put their cards on the table and tell the forum what their perspective is regarding society, law and order, martial authority, anarchy, and the rules of war. I suspect their ideology was hopelessly compromised before they encountered this topic. Their catchwords are probably terms like eurocentrism, cultural diversity, socialism (in its most positive sense), capitalism (in its most fevered negative sense), etc. They likely agree, with today's revisionists, that Christopher Columbus's voyage to the New World was an ipso facto act of genocide. Like most revisionists, they hold this view as white persons standing on terra firma in--you guessed it--the New World, lacking even the decency or consistency to remove themselves from the "scene of the crime." That is why US treatment of terrorists caught in the act trumps anything they will in their lifetimes have to say about the dozens of third world countries that have treated their own citizens worse for decades. And that why, when they encounter that last sentence, they will simply shrug their shoulders and offer that deer-caught-in-headlights stare that alerts one to the fact that the lights are on, but no one is home. Go ahead...ask them: "Did you not find it the least bit repugnant that Kofi Anan, after providing Bhutros Galli with false information, resulting in the Rwandan slaughter of 800,000 men, women, and children, was elevated to Secretary General of the UN?"
In their moral swamp, 800,000 innocents are of less value than 1 terrorist at Gitmo.-
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fsev411 month, 4 weeks ago
It appears to me that your argument would then put George Bush in the very same league as Kofi Anan.
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By the way, how do you know where most of the detainees were apprehended. Were you present for the apprehension of even one of them? I would have to believe that you are relying on what your government tells you. That's the same government that's been lying to you on an almost daily basis. That doesn't seem too smart.
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